social justice and democracy in miami
Didn't they already achieved a nice raise?How will these workers further benefit by financially supporting Andy Stern and his friends? And since when is 100 people the majority of 425?Is this a democracy or an SEIU dictatorship?
Dear Anonymous,They already achieved a raise to something still below the living wage required by Miami Dade County and the city of Miami.They will benefit from financially supporting the SEIU by getting a living wage which will more than offset the modest union dues they vote upon and are free not to pay if they choose.This is a democracy.
I've got a new STAND slogan, rather than "I SUPPORT UNICCO WORKERS"..."I SUPPORT UNICCO WORKERS WITH MY INCREASED TUITION".
Be careful not to confuse a minimum wage requirement and a living wage requirement... they are two very, very seperate things. I do not believe that UNICCO meets the requrements of having to legally pay a "living wage".And a vote? Does your comment mean they can vote on union dues? Why won't the SEIU let them vote on whether or not they even choose to be represented?Free not to pay dues? As is just the "political part" I do believe... what steps has the SEIU taken to ensure the workers fully understand their rights and obligations in freely choosing whether or not they what any part of the SEIU? How are the workers assured that the SEIU isn't just making promises that it has a well-known reputation for breaking?
IF a living wage REQUIRED is by Miami Dade County and the city of Miami - the workers will recieve it regardless of the SEIU... hence the dues would just become another burden on these workers. (You'll want to be careful not to specifically promise these workers higher wages in exchange for union dues - you could very well get sued when you fail to deliver.)Addionally, if they choose not to pay dues (which most cannot really afford to pay anyways) they loose any rights to vote within the SEIU on THEIR OWN working conditions... isn't that one of the concerns the workers currently have right now - no voice in the workplace? The scam here is... the SEIU becomes the bargining agent without a democratic vote, and sells the "right" to have imput to the workers for a monthly fee. Go ahead and ask the SEIU - what are your restrictions if you cannot afford to pay? What is the SEIU hiding from you... the reality is - Andy Stern needs these workers to pay dues so that he and his friends can continue to earn such high salaries (currently it would take 34 of these workers incomes to equal Andy's - and yet HE claims to support THEM???)
Sure it is... just like the German Democratic Republic.
"The scam here is... the SEIU becomes the bargining agent without a democratic vote, and sells the "right" to have imput to the workers for a monthly fee. Go ahead and ask the SEIU - what are your restrictions if you cannot afford to pay? What is the SEIU hiding from you... the reality is - Andy Stern needs these workers to pay dues so that he and his friends can continue to earn such high salaries (currently it would take 34 of these workers incomes to equal Andy's - and yet HE claims to support THEM???)"I wonder if such comments are on behalf of the workers or on behalf of UNICCO. I hope you're not assuming that these workers can acheive better conditions on an individual basis when they all do similar work and could easily be fired and replaced. If you think SEIU is so bad then propose an alternative - say, a non-heirarchical workers organization based on democratic participation. But there's none of that in your post, just some implicit right-wing clichés about unions....
Sounds like wr're getting some increasingly insecure trolls trolling through the blog......
Right, we're the ones that are insecure.We didn't go dig up some geriatric communist/actor has-been to come to campus on Friday and act like it was a great victory."He dictated an email to Jake". I'm surprised Jake could remain stationary that long.That'll show em!
"Sounds like wr're getting some increasingly insecure trolls trolling through the blog......"You post with no comments on the subject - rather, taking the liberties of judging others for the courage to voice their opinions... hmm... please just ask yourself what's wrong with this...
Yet another Anonymous said... "You post with no comments on the subject - rather, taking the liberties of judging others for the courage to voice their opinions... hmm... please just ask yourself what's wrong with this..."How much courage does it take to post anonymously on a blog?For the sake of discussion, let me suggest to those afraid to identify themselves that rather than click Anonymous, you choose Other, where you can call yourself Anonymous1, Anonymous68k, or whatever, so that your points can be discussed. It's a bit confusing to have (perhaps) multiple Anonymous posts. Just a thought.
"We?" Does this mean you are affiliated with UNICCO? As for the other comment, labeling someone a "Communist" doesn't exactly lend credibility to your argument. Maybe he's a spy, too. Frankly, it's getting tiring listening to you make arguments that make the workers sound like children that can't make their own decisions. By the way, Jonathan, what salary would you like Mr. Stern to make? I suppose any executive who is paid automatically has no credibility. We'll wait for you to step up and take over his duties gratis....
"We?" Does this mean you are affiliated with UNICCO? ..."Not sure if this was pointed directly for johnathan or not, but here are my two cents...1. Sorry, not affiliated with Unicco.2. Communists??? Didn't make that comment - but it's crazy to hear you complain about labeling - that's a game that has been mastered by the SEIU here... they will say anything and do anything to "win" the chance to take these workers money.3. Tired of listening? No one is making the workers sound like children here - they're the victems that are being manipulated and promised the sky in exchange for union dues... which the SEIU is getting desperate to deliver (they do need a return on their investment). If your tired of it - find a hobby or find something else to attach yourself to.4. What salary should Andy make - to lead by example - a simple living wage! $125 PER HOUR just shows Andy's real motivation here.To the workers, I continue to hope and pray for you... that this SCAM of a union - the SEIU - grows tired of pulling on your heart strings and playing with your emotions and moves on to its next victems before you loose everything you've worked for.
Sorry, Jonathan, I meant to address that remark towards "anonymous"..
So, anonymous, what you're basicaslly saying is, everyone should make the same exact wage, regardless of what they do? Gee, what type of political movement would love that type of thinking.......You seem very concerned, and more or less base your entire argument, on the workers' union dues. I'm pretty sure that they'd rather pay their union dues each month than be subjected to arbitrary firings and harassment from a company that OSHA just listed as one of its 10 worst. As far as your final point is concerned, "before you lose everything you've worked for," therein lies our strongest argument.......they've worked hard for years, and have NOTHING to lose....... or maybe you figured they were investing part of their $7/hour into an IRA...........
rpe"I'm pretty sure that they'd rather pay their union dues each month... "THEN LET THEM VOTE! With less than 25% striking - and a dispute that a democratic vote could have settled by now - I'm pretty sure you have no idea what they want.
"... OSHA just listed as one of its 10 worst... "Check it out, another union lie! You might want to do some fact checking next time with the actual OSHA.Another example of the SEIU game... did Andy ($250,000) teach you how to spread this propaganda?
Simply go to the OSHA website and you will find their "dirty dozen"....we're not talking complicated fact checking here....You ever bother to ask yourself WHY UNICCO doesn't want the workers to use a card check....and PLEASE don't say it's because they're looking out for the workers...I'm sure the workers would be MORE than happy to engage in the voting process you have suggested, as long as you can guarantee them a new job when they are fired at some point throughout the 3 year voting process....More union lies, right? Your argument has now been reduced to calling everything a lie......a very common tactic of many of the middle school students I teach.....
anonymous - i believe that the mix-up of OSHA and COSH was an honest mistake and maybe you should chill a little before you get your panties irremediably twisted over propaganda.
Different organization, same facts...
Apparently we are talking about complicated fact checking here.No one can believe it was an honest mistake... OSHA is a world-respected government agency... COSH is funded by unions to spread union propaganda... the two organizations have virtually nothing in common.If an educated teacher of middle school children can be SO EASILY FOOLED - surely you must agree that the workers can also be fooled. These are the types of lies the union organizers are saying to these workers to get their cards signed. A secret democratic vote hosted by the NLRB guarentees the workers the chance to vote how THEY wish without anyone else in the world knowing how they individually voted - only the collective outcome. What could be more fair?As for a three year voting process? That's the extreme. Remember, it's the SEIU that filed the highly questionable charges - which have yet to be even investigated - to tie up the democratic process and prevent a vote... and then the SEIU hunger-strike, again to prevent a vote... hmmm who's really trying to delay and deprive these workers of the democratic process??? Who here is dragging their feet??? The SEIU, because they know the majority of the workers see thru their "game". PLEASE SEIU - JUST LET THEM VOTE!!!
Charges are filed when offenses take place......maybe you ought to do a little legwork and actually SPEAK to some of the workers who have dealt with their bosses calling them 17 times a day, being threatened with retribution if they continue their activities. OBVIOUSLY, you have had no contact with the people who these labor practices actually affect, therefore, I don't see how you could speak on the subject with any authority. Unless, of course, you are accusing these people of lying, which, as we know by now, is your one and only argument.How could you possibly know what's best for the janitors when you've obviously never spoken to one? If you'd like to know why more janitors aren't vocal about the situation, ask yourself...why do many abused wives stay with their husbands?
dear anonymous,you are correct in pointing out that OSHA "is a world-respected government agency." and when you go on their website and search for UNICCO, this is what you find:OSHA News Release 2005 - 12/08/2005 - OSHA Fines Unicco $152,500 Following Fatal Window Cleaning Accident Region 1 News Release: 05-2286-BOS/BOS 2005-342Thursday, December 8, 2005Contact: Ted FitzgeraldPhone: (617) 565-2074 METHUEN, Mass. -- The U.S. Labor Department's Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has cited Unicco Service Company for alleged willful and repeat violations of safety standards following a June 8 accident at the New England Executive Park in Burlington, Mass., that killed one worker and severely injured another. The facilities management and personnel firm faces a total of $152,500 in proposed fines.The accident occurred during window cleaning of a four-story building. One employee was on the roof, tending a rolling outrigger suspension support unit from which a second employee was lowered to clean the windows, when the unit rolled off the roof. Both employees fell about 50 feet to the ground below and the window cleaner was also struck by the falling unit. The tender was killed; the window cleaner sustained severe injuries.OSHA's investigation found that the outrigger unit was not tied back to a rooftop anchorage point, was not equipped with sufficient counterweight and had improperly installed wheels. The employee tending the unit had no experience and little or no training in setting, rigging and using the unit. In addition, both employees' lifelines were tied off to the fallen unit rather than to independent anchorage points on the roof. Tying off to an independent anchorage would have halted their fall. Finally, components of safety harnesses and a lanyard used by the workers were defective."This company is well aware of the requirements to protect window cleaners contained in industry standards, manufacturer instructions and its own safety program, yet chose to ignore them," said Francis Pagliuca, OSHA's area director for Middlesex and Essex counties. "They were cited for similar hazards following a double fatality in 2003."On May 15, 2003, two Unicco window cleaners were killed in a fall at a worksite at 2 Center Plaza in Boston. As a result of that accident, OSHA fined the company $23,500. For the June 2005 accident, OSHA issued two willful citations, with $140,000 in fines, for the improperly rigged and anchored outrigger suspension support unit and lifelines. A repeat citation, with a $12,500 fine, was issued for the defects in the safety harnesses and lanyard.OSHA defines a willful violation as one committed with intentional disregard of, or plain indifference to, the requirements of the Occupational Safety and Health Act and regulations. A repeat citation is issued when an employer has previously been cited for a substantially similar hazard and that earlier citation has become final.Unicco has 15 business days from receipt of the citations to request and participate in an informal conference with the OSHA area director or to contest them before the independent Occupational Safety and Health Review Commission. The investigation was conducted by OSHA's Methuen area office, telephone (617) 565-8110.Employers are responsible for providing a safe and healthful workplace for their employees. OSHA's role is to assure the safety and health of America's workers by setting and enforcing standards; providing training, outreach, and education; establishing partnerships; and encouraging continual improvement in workplace safety and health. For more information, visit www.osha.gov.
"If you'd like to know why more janitors aren't vocal about the situation, ask yourself...why do many abused wives stay with their husbands?" RPE - you're just plain spun on SO MANY different levels - it's actually kind of scary... there's a huge difference between someone filing a charge with a government agency (something anyone can do) and actually being convicted. Hate to remind you that we live in AMERICA, which last time I checked was a democracy (so if you don't believe in democratic voting - why do you live here?). If what you are saying is true - let the workers' vote be their voice... LET THEM VOTE! As for your childish "lies" comments - please re-read this blog - you're the one spewing mis-information (and can't fact check to save your life). Please try to look at the facts in this, and educate yourself before replying.With thanks,
« Miami Herald Editorial: Secret Vote is ‘Fair’Union-Funded ‘Research’ Criticizes Us (Surprise!)In a debate, you are never supposed to repeat what your opponents say about you.Well, this farce instigated by the union hardly qualifies as a debate, so we are going to acknowledge that SEIU and its allies distributed a trumped-up report about an unsafe ‘dirty dozen’. And yes, we were named as one of the dozen. What a shock! (Keep reading. This gets really interesting.)Ever since SEIU went on its power trip here in Southern Florida, the union has used alleged violations of safety as a rationale for attacking UNICCO. And from the start, we have had to point out (and hope that somebody is listening) that this is nothing but their standard tactic in an organizing campaign.Now we have proof that we were right … and we are not alone. (Here comes the good part.) COSH, which put out the report, is an advocacy group, not a research outfit, not a think tank and not independent at all. (Here it comes.) COSH gets its money from … SEIU and other labor unions. (Surprise!)Here’s another surprise: SEIU has launched organizing campaigns against the vast majority, if not all, of the dozen employers cited by COSH. That’s a neat trick. Start a union drive, then pay someone to produce “evidence” that someone should organize workers for their protection.If ever there was empirical proof that these alleged safety violations were nothing more than an attempt to embarrass companies during organizing campaigns, this is it!Yeah, it’s not a debate. It’s a farce. Unfortunately, SEIU is dragging hard-working UNICCO workers into it.Let ‘em vote.
Over fifty years in business and thousands and thousands of employees in a very dangerous industry - and these two deaths could have been prevented if the workers sent their hard-earned money to support Andy's $250,000 a year lifestyle???Get real. Look at the numbers - how many people died working at the big three (which is heavily unionized by a much more reputable union) - in the last five years alone? Or yeah - those workers already pay dues, so we won't mention them.Create a crisis and sell a solution... that's what this is all about. LET THE WORKERS VOTE!
are u people forgetting this isint about andy or whatever its about the support of the workers that are doing that SEIU thing. support the cause or dont its up to you. theres no need for arguements.
i think rpe's analogy regarding the power dynamics that keep victims of abuse from leaving the situation is on target. one thing that has struck many in this whole thing is how long some of the workers have worked for unicco/um and have put up with the abuses... i have made a point of getting to know the workers so i can formulate my own opinions regarding the issues at hand (something i doubt anonymous has done). i have met workers who have been in this job for 10+ years. and many of these workers have expressed to me how with the seiu's help, they are finally able to air their grievances with assurances that someone will listen, and that those who have broken the law will be held accountable. so say all you want about the seiu, but the fact remains, nobody else has tried to help the workers until now. had an outside organization not stepped in, these power dynamics would still be in place, and the abuses the workers are protesting would be still going on. D. Shalala would never have given raises and health benefits had seiu not stepped in to organize the workers. as far as I'm concerned, some of the anonymous postings on this blog are out of touch with those who have been victimized and are downright offensive to victims of labor abuses and any other kind of abuse for that matter. the editors of this blog have been way more generous with you than i would have been.
Not sure what happened to my latest post, but I feel the need to ask, DO we believe in censorship now?
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